LEH questions

[Apolonius]

Now that LEH is over and winners are happy ,losers done licking their wounds i like to ask some questions.First i make it clear i don't believe in the system we got right now.Why is it not that all names are published?Dont even think about privacy laws.Every lottery known to man publishes the names.Vancouver Sun has pages at times.Too Many?This computer age is not such thing as too much.We could all see who gets it and if it is repeat winners ,who and why.Are there repeat winners?Yes as it is repeat looser many years over.Now why is it that even BCWF voted down the motion to go Alberta style?.The guy that put the motion on "seeing"the light changed his mind.Maybe he could enlighten us poor peasants too.I personally believe BCWF is wrong on this one.If they believe in fairness they should support a system that is fair.Or are they in the old boys network too?The present system is not.I know there are people that work on LEH here on this site...trolling.I believe where hands are involved there are also minds.And the distrust comes along especially if you are a looser on a draw thats 1:1.1 odds and you get nothing for 15 years.So to all that you work there lets publish the names,last years and the year before or two or three years.I know you will not.People might see the light and start connecting the dots.And you are not gods ever again .Lets go alberta style and no one has control.Special draws done by computer at random numbers not names.Names have friends ,numbers are just that.Conspiracy theorist???.....oh yes!!! Mostly sick and tired of loosing.

[SR80]

So your going to sit and look through all the winners from the last few years Of LEH results to look for repeat winners? Good thing hunting season is next month, because you sound bored! You'll see my name on that list for moose draws though, never been off the reduced odds list bull moose, but then again we put in for group draws in a spot that is less than 1:1 odds with hardly any access.

[Ozone]

Sounds like you have more licking to do.

[123.brewski]

I completeley agree with what you are saying Apolonius. not to mention a waste of money, and paper> we send application cards by snail mail? So that we can the ministry to enter the data for a month? Are you kidding? With the computer systems out there? And then the fairness thing. I know i happen to live in one of the buisiest regions in the provence, but as far as i can tell, the locals just arent getting tags. Conspiracy for sure. A plot to encourage internal provincial travel and tourism i figure.

[Rhyno]

I like the current system. The one improvement I would like to see is it go online so any mistakes with data entry would be your own. Not to mention how fast the results would come out.

It has been explained numerous times why the Alberta system doesn't work here....do a search.

I do feel sorry for you that you live in a province that you can hunt every species except Grizz and Bison on GOS;)

[r106]

I like the current system. The one improvement I would like to see is it go online so any mistakes with data entry would be your own. Not to mention how fast the results would come out.

It has been explained numerous times why the Alberta system doesn't work here....do a search.

I do feel sorry for you that you live in a province that you can hunt every species except Grizz and Bison on GOS;)

X2. The only real change I would like to see is it go online.

[Rackmastr]

Sounds like you have more licking to do.

Haha was thinking the same thing....

[jml11]

Sounds like some people need to do some research...there is plenty of information out there including several threads on here as to why the priority system would not work well in BC, at least for the majority of hunts. Unless you are ok with waiting until you are geriatric before you get the chance. Instead of bashing the BCWF, do some reading, google is your friend (as is the search function on this site). Also the government has announced that they are striving to have the hunting licensing including LEH fully online by the 2015-2016 season...also a thread on that on here as well.

I don't see how publishing the names of the winners would help you 'connect the dots'...there are none to connect...it's a lottery just like 6/49...believe it or not some have won that more than once too! But if it helps I've put in for 12 years and you'll see my name on there 12 times (3 bull moose, 2 Grizz, 1 Goat, 1 Caribou, 2 Deer, 1 Elk and 2 sheep). Five have have been at odds ratios of 5:1 or greater, 3 of those greater than 10:1 and one lands in at 25:1. Meh...maybe i'm biased...but I do consider myself to very fortunate on the LEH system...and no I don't know anyone in Victoria if that helps you sleep better. Most of those tags I didn't even fill actually but I do have lots of good critters taken under GOS. Remember other than Grizzly and Roosevelt Elk, you can hunt all other BC wildlife, all ages, sexes and sizes under general open season somewhere in the province. I've only had 3 moose LEH's but I've somehow managed to legally harvest 8...7 of them bulls, go figure! Also got two goats, a 6-point elk and a Stone's sheep in general open seasons and been on trips where of many other good critters haven been taken with the purchase of an over-the-counter tag...

[Darksith]

I think we all agree that it needs to goto an online system. That would basically remove the human hand, but I seriously doubt if they pull names. Posting the winners wouldn't be a bad thing either, but I don't think it would mean anything either. If you are a continuous loser for multiple years, then why not put in for every less than 1:1 draw possible and see what happens. Seriously though, Alberta's system is not better, its not always greener on the other side. BC is the best place to live for a hunter, period. Break out the wallet, put in for tough access areas and go get an LEH, not that you need it to be successful though!

[Apolonius]

I can tell you i am a very successful hunter with or without Leh.I am not licking my wounds.My point is fairness in a fair system.The perception real or not is there.By the way i hear lots of guys get their wives to apply too.Why??As the government tries to attract more females to hunting "maybe "is there a favoritism?The alberta system has its flaws i believe too and ours just the same.There is always room to improve.Why wait till 2015-2016?Just "borrow" alberta's computer program.It is amazing the responces you get once you question the system.Like the guys that were outspoken about the native guy shooting the "dry" cow it was implied they are racist.And the people that congratulated him were progressive and fair.Are we brainwashed so bad that we lost our ability to question the system and have the balls to speak our mind?And by the way i do some research on certain things.If they did publish the list you might be surprised how many dots you will see.

["No Choke"Lord Walsingham]

BC's system rewards the lucky/fortunate and Alberta's rewards those who plan well (to a certain extent).

If it is as random as we are told it is in BC, just like lotto max or what have you, sometimes the same people win more than once. I am not sure about Canadians but I know of Americans who have repeatedly won lotteries (cash based ones though likely hunting ones as well) there is one man who even published a book or two on the matter after a notable amount of wins. I see no benefit to posting a list of winners names. For example, people who break the law by interfering in a lawful hunt may use such a list to harass Hunters.

There are some benefits to BC's system and some to Alberta's as any who studies that subject in the least can attest. Yet still, a BC resident willing to travel a bit and put in the work can indeed (as mentioned by Rhyno) hunt all available species with the exeptions of Bison and the Grizzly/Brown Bear. My advice to anyone interested is to keep putting in for these draws and say your prayers! Meanwhile, if one has the temerity to bemoan the LEH, why not channel that energy towards getting out there asap and hunting on a GOS tag! So many of those available is a big advantage of the BC system.

I certainly do agree that there are many aspects of Canadian life, law and government that desperately require change. I would prefer to focus my efforts in these areas as opposed to focusing on the LEH, which seems okay for the most part. I can not help but agree that society, especially in BC has allowed what some may define as extreme left special interest groups to undermine our ability for effective dialogue by using personal attacks and labels such as "racist", "homophobe", et al to their advantage. Just like those in the anti-gun lobby in Canada, they attempt to get us to operate/argue our positions from a place of weakness.

[BiG Boar]

Interesting thread, bit of a dead horse. Please put 2 spaces after a period so it's easier to read.

My biggest pet peeve is people who don't understand the mathematical probabilities behind their draws. They put in for 50:1 odds and actually get mad when they're not drawn. They even consider 8:1 good odds!

[Apolonius]

Lotto and Leh ?Just a ticket no one knows who it is that got it?Just plain random!!!!!Maybe just a location?And Leh with info about you and everything they want to know about you??Do not try to compare the two.Bison and Grizzly??What about Island elk,Dall sheep?This are the draws to pay attention,not the doe draw in timbuctou!!!!.As for going far and hunt on a GOS?I do believe me.But why just put my head in the sand and say it is ok?A free person does not let some one ,see government, tell you what to think.You feel sleepy now!!!!Did anyone read the report about how the government workers hide their trail in the personal emails?So they stay secret even if you ask through F.O.I ?By the way we probably pay some one that is recording everything that is said on this site.Oh... i am sorry we dont have NSA here!!! ha ha ha ha time for a beer,a joint and some cake.I am glad we got Christie's open government....for years to come.baaaaaaah

[hunterdon]

X2. The only real change I would like to see is it go online.

x3.The only thing that I would add is so many guys, at least several that I know, put in for a whole slew of draws, thinking that they will get at least one or two. But, some years, they get drawn for 4 or 5 draws, and only hunt 2 or maybe 3 at best. The other draws go wasted. I'm sure this happens quite often. Sometimes, we are our worst enemy.

[BiG Boar]

That big long key at the bottom of the key board is meant to be used twice after a period or question mark or exclaimation point!It will make it easier to separate thoughts.Plus it's easier for us to understand what you're saying.

[goatdancer]

Lotto and Leh ?Just a ticket no one knows who it is that got it?Just plain random!!!!!Maybe just a location?And Leh with info about you and everything they want to know about you??Do not try to compare the two.Bison and Grizzly??What about Island elk,Dall sheep?This are the draws to pay attention,not the doe draw in timbuctou!!!!.As for going far and hunt on a GOS?I do believe me.But why just put my head in the sand and say it is ok?A free person does not let some one ,see government, tell you what to think.You feel sleepy now!!!!Did anyone read the report about how the government workers hide their trail in the personal emails?So they stay secret even if you ask through F.O.I ?By the way we probably pay some one that is recording everything that is said on this site.Oh... i am sorry we dont have NSA here!!! ha ha ha ha time for a beer,a joint and some cake.I am glad we got Christie's open government....for years to come.baaaaaaah

Why would it matter who got which draw? Are you suggesting that 'some' have preferential treatment? I take my shot in our LEH lottery quite often. The results are way better than my 'lotto' attempts. I also indulge in the Alberta LEH for prairie goats as well. Each one is different and it really does not bother me which way things go. Take your shot and hope for the best. "Fair" has no place in the 2 systems. If it really grits your gravy, don't apply.

[Gateholio]

Please check the huge thread on Leh that is stickied

[Apolonius]

Thanks Gatehouse.I did read a lot of the thread.The LEH "guy" said 2007 will probably be the last year for paper applications.What year do we have now????.I also found his answers to be that of a politician "we are doing our best" and a bureaucrat ,through in lots of statistics ,numbers and mumbo jumbo,confuse the peasants.Goatdancer did support him up to a point being a good friend.And my answer to his "some" people get preferential treatment?Real or not it is out there.If i was working on that office i would try my best to take it out of the equation.Publish the winners....So 2013 still paper,the draws come out late and we are still complaining.What has being done?????Zero ,just empty promises and we know better than you.I would trust a rutting rattlesnake in an elevator but never politicos or bureaucrats.One question, why do some people fight real hard to keep it the way it is????.According to Shrek "change is good donky!!!"

[Gateholio]

publishing names of winners would accomplish nothing other than to waste resources. A computerized system can't come too soon though.

[416]

Another vote for privacy of winners in the draws....any time information is collected and held by gubbermint it represents a danger to those in what ever the data base is. In today's crazy world and crazy people who live in it, would it be to far of a stretch to imagine the info gleamed from such a "public" list could be used for nefarious deeds? Some one wins a hard to get draw......you know where he/she will be at a certain time, little checking on face-crack and other social media sites (such as this one) could supply more information about the winners and activities, little more checking up and wannabe thieves have most of their work done for them about where and when to rip someone off. Not to say it will, but with out that info being made public, that particular source would never be available. Or the tree huggers, who some already accuse of buying LEH's with no intention of ever hunting......how much fun could they have with a public list of LEH winners?
The gun registry is a perfect example of a "shopping list" data base for both thieves and cops (think High River)........knowledge is power which can be used what ever way a person wants and its a sad commentary on today's society, but if it can be abused, it usually will be by both criminals and law enforcement.
Getting our LEH's on line would be nice, but the rest of the system works fine by me.

[Apolonius]

Waste of resources,having paper and people doing it manually ,thats waste.Privacy?It works both ways.Maybe not a bad way to identify "antis" that apply and never go anywhere.As for breaking in your house ,the thieves look for an opportunity,if it is there they take it.Be it going holidays or hunting.Back to the list.One of the things we hear is this guy/lady got this Roosvelt elk/coveted draw twice in five years,and joe blow nothing for twenty.The lists will tell the truth if they are published whole.And dont tell me this is not the biggest complain out there.By the way i should mention.I have done very well in LEH over the years.And even better on GOS.Better than manny people, but i still believe in fairness for all.And fairness is achieved with improvements,and only change does that.There are lots of young people that will be like their fathers with 20 loosing years!So if Alberta has something good adopt it.If we got something bad drop it or fix it.To end it all i would like to see.On line licensing,on line LEH,mandatory reporting after the hunt on line too.By the end of the year 90% minimum would be in.And publishing the list witch could be accessible only with a hunter number.To cover expenses raise the fees.

[Gateholio]

Publishing names of winners will not make other people more lucky. There is nothing more fair than a random draw. Points systems would be extremely unfair to any new hunter that will have to wait 10 + years for any draw that has more than about 3-1 odds

[40incher]

Bottom line is our system of punishing lucky hunters does not work, especially when the bureaucrats screw up the draw and give grizzly permits to hunters who did not apply for them (which supposedly reduces their odds for the next draw). Also, when a hunter applies for a 0.5:1 hunt and does not draw yet others get it second choice is a second strike. Thirdly, when the bureaucrats arbitrarily reduce LEH numbers because of a lack of applications is the exact reverse of LEH policy. Oh yeah, I forgot, we lost all that when the BCWF gurus decided to support a rewrite of the Allocation Policy!

[Apolonius]

Publishing the list is not to make people lucky.It is to make the system transparent and believable."come on G give me some thing better than that".I like you.I hoped to get some good answers.Privacy,lotto comparison ,alberta sucks are kind of "not so good"and "who cares".Believe me lots of people do.Leaving the system like we do have it now is not working.Or is working for some.Openess and transparency will be a good start.Bringing it to computer age before the end of the 21st century will help too.And bureaucrats don't know better than us.Every time i hear them answering i get the feeling i get screwed.They should publish the lists for the last few years and we might be a little surprised with what we find.And how many excuses there will be.Except if they are "lost" or government top secret that would expose the workings of the bureaucrats ,than darn it,we are hopeless.Bcwf would be smart to start working for all,they might get even more members.I am one for years.