Natives block Hunters in Chilcotin

[Magnum-man]

This is my first post. The following is a news item that affects us all as hunters.

WILLIAMS LAKE, B.C. - Dozens of hunters hoping to bag a moose in the Chilcotin's Nemiah Valley have been turned back at two First Nations roadblocks.

The Tsilqot'in National Government says it's stopping non-native hunters and ATV riders to protect their food supply in the area southwest of Williams Lake.

"If they look like they're hunters, we prevent them from going through," says Tsilqot'in spokesperson Joe Alphonse.

"If they want to continue into the area, that's fine so long as they hand over their moose tags to us."

INDEPTH: First Nations in British Columbia

Chilcotin rancher Duncan Baynes is angry after he was stopped at one of the roadblocks.

"You know, these people are taking the law into their own hands," he says. "I don't think natives should be doing this. I don't think it's a way to win friends and influence people."

Baynes says dozens of hunters who travelled to the area and were turned back are also angry – and he says it gives B.C. "a black eye."

The MLA for the area, Walt Cobb, says his office is hearing from some of those hunters. "Roadblocks are illegal to start with. The people have a right to hunt out there."

The Alexis Creek RCMP say they're monitoring the blockade, but have no plans to intervene. Police say the blockades are set up in an area that's the subject of a land claims battle that's before the courts.

Meanwhile, the Tsilquot'in says it's planning to set up a third road block to keep non-native hunters out of the Chilcotin

I will be up there mid October hunting moose so hopefully they'll go home by then.

[willyqbc]

The Alexis Creek RCMP say they're monitoring the blockade, but have no plans to intervene.


So the RCMP is allowing taxpaying citizens to be turned away from the use of crown lands by people who are breaking the law???? What a crock of sh*t!! I am absolutely sick of all this molly-coddling bullsh*t when it comes to the natives of this country. A good percentage of the natives in this country filing landclaims showed up here after being driven up from the States AFTER my family was allready here. These natives are also entitled to rights and priveledges not afforded to me even though my family was here first!
I will cut this off here before I really get going and lose my temper, sorry for the rant

Chris

[Amphibious]

I'm almost tempted to go moose hunting there just see what they intend to do to stop a well armed, well motivated moose hunter from setting up his law abiding and 100% legal moose camp. :evil:

[3kills]

any buddy wanna get to gether fora good old moose hunt i figured if even a quater of the members here where to go it would be interesting...

[swamper]

As far as I am concerned, until such a time as the courts actually say that the area in question really is native land, then the said land is crown land and open to tax paying citizens. The day I hand over my moose tag to anyone other than a CO or an RCMP officer will be the day they play the Stanley Cup in Hades.

[Magnum-man]

I spoke with Alexis Creek RCMP and they told me that they do not want to intervene and start a gun battle. I thought their job was to uphold the law. This blockade is illegal. Does this mean that anyone can set up a blockade when they feel they have a justifiable reason? Maybe someone should blockade them in to prevent them from getting out of their reservation. See how long that lasts.

I think if a few shots were fired and some tires blown out then the RCMP would have to take action and remove the blockade otherwise I can see this expanding into other areas to prevent hunters getting through.

[3kills]

the police just arrested a bunch of guys here cuz of ther blockade at sun peaks i think the cops there are just being chicken shit...

[ratherbefishin]

this is exactly what hunters said when the land claims issues were coming up-that natives would controll all hunting in the province, and the government would give into them- just as they have the salmon fishery.
My opinion is we are all canadians and the sooner we all are on a level playing field the better.One law, based on conservation, for everybody.I have no issue with Natives controlling their own reserve, or selling hunting privileges on it- but to go beyond that onto Crown land is too much.However, I also think the government will cede hunting rights to them as part of a settlement package.It's naive to think otherwise.

[3kills]

technically a status card does not give a native the right to hunt or fish...they still have to go and get there hunting and fishing card adn they are suppose to actaully stay on reserve land...

[willyqbc]

adn they are suppose to actaully stay on reserve land...


I don't beleive thats the case 3kills, they are supposed to hunt on what is considered "traditional hunting grounds". Now what that is exactly is kind of a grey area, and basically covers the entire province. The only stumbling block they have to hunting another area is getting permission from the band who has "claim" on the land they want to hunt. Lord help us if they are ever granted sole hunting rights to these areas. They will be selling hunting priveledges as fast as people will pay, and when the critters have been wiped out, they will blame the white folks and scream for restitution. We have seen this happen in the logging industry time and again, I doubt it would be any different if they were given control over areas for hunting purposes. I have seen one case where a company bought a sizeable amount of timber from a band here, paid for up front....when it came time to log it they threw up a road block claiming it was their timber and when it went to court, the court allowed them to keep the timber......NO money was ever reunded to the company who bought the timber. The native have been allowed to have their cake and eat it too, and it would be no dierent in this situation.

Just my opinion,
Chris

[3kills]

ur right chris they arent suppose to hunt on any property thats not within there band...such as natives from here cant go up there and hunt there "technically" but i dont see anyone stopping them....

[bone-collector]

no they are not aloud to hunt crown land with a status card they must hunt treaty land only and only for there band unless given written permission form another band , we have alot of this crap here with 5 reserves in 1 area , as for the blockades and cops not wanting to get into it , well they will when some white guy yanks a sks out of his truck and opens fire on the roadblock for trying to take his moose :wink:

this has been a ongoing discussion on cgn and pretty clear that sooner or later its going to erupt into something the cops dont want unless they step up and deal with it now

[3kills]

i said this the other night over a few beers will dewey..its going to come down to custards last stand....

[MRBucks]

I can't see how moose could be considered part of their historical food, in the first place. My Dad told me years ago, that moose only started showing up south of Prince George, around 1945. It would have been a very rare moose that would have been in that are of the province a couple of hundred years ago. Besides, what are the billions of taxpayer dollars spent by Indian Affairs actually paying for? I don't believe for a minute that Canada's First Immigrants, need to hunt, to live. They can shop at the store with "our" money....

The whole thing makes me sick :( I hate to see the laws provided to citizens, not being upheld by the RCMP.

Didn't we win the war?

[3kills]

the whole thing started cuz they had a bad fishing season...thats a big part of it....

[Mauser98]

Didn't we win the war?

Which war was that???

[Marc]

you know the cowboy and indian war. :lol:

[3kills]

i found this info on another site and thought i would post it here....


INFORMATION BULLETIN
Ministry of Water, Land and Air Protection
For Immediate Release
2004WLAP0051-000813
Oct. 5, 2004
B.C., FIRST NATION TO WORK TOGETHER ON MOOSE MANAGEMENT
WILLIAMS LAKE – The Province and the Tsilhqot’in Council of Chiefs are working towards an
agreement for the collaborative management of moose and other wildlife in the Chilcotin region.
In addition to joint game checks, which will survey hunters and their harvested game, First
Nations have expressed an interest in providing information to the Regional Hunter Advisory
Committee. The committee, which includes local representation of the BC Wildlife Federation and
Guide Outfitters Association, reviews and recommends future hunting regulations.
The future of the new spike-fork moose season in the area will be included in the regulations
under review. For this year’s spike-fork moose season in the Cariboo region, Management Units 5-03
to 5-06 and 5-10 to 5-14 inclusive will now close Oct. 12, while 5-01, 5-02 and 5-15 will remain open
as planned. This change does not affect moose hunters with limited-entry hunting authorizations.
First Nations observers will also participate in moose population inventories in the Chilcotin
region and help better define their sustenance needs.

[Fred]

Perhaps someone should bring up the subject of "Deriliction of Duty" with the Alexis Creek detatchment. Also E-Division takes formal complaints very seriously. Fred

[Amphibious]

this is 100% bu11sh1t !


In addition to joint game checks, which will survey hunters and their harvested game

anybody wants to poke around in my truck better be in uniform. if not they better have a big gun or a faster draw then I do. :evil:

[3kills]

willer i agree with ya...

[swamper]

I thought I might have been hearing things last night when I heard this on the radio. I find it hard to swallow that a special interest group such as the first nations can dictate to the government how to manage the wildlife population. Does the wildlife department not do extensive surveys of population numbers before they make a decision to open a season. When the moratorium first went into effect most of us thought we would never see an open season again. The spike-forkhorn season was a welcome addition. It helped to take some of the pressure off region 7. I definitely noticed a sharp decrease in the number of hunters out in 7-08 this fall. I agree 100% will Amphibious. Anyone not in a uniform is not checking my vehicle out.
Now the part that really pisses me off is the fact that the indians are claiming aboriginal hunting rights. There were no moose here until after the turn of the 20th century. A native friend of mine told me his father shot the first moose in Quesnel in the early 1900's. They brought it into town to see if anyone even knew what it was. How can they claim aboriginal rights on an animal that was not even indiginous to the area. If these *******s want to have aboriginal hunting, then take up the bow or spear or whatever method they used before the whiteman introduced them to firearms. These guys are even allowed to pitlamp. And how many can even claim to be more than 25% indian. Yes there are still some full blood indians in this area but they are few and far between. Can you imagine what would happen to us if we even clicked our bic if there was a moose or deer around.
Its time we stood up for ourselves. The only problem is that the people that make these decisions are pencil pusher pussies in Victoria that probably wouldn't know a moose if they hit it with their car. Maybe we should be typical Canadians and "write a letter". What is the answer, I don't know, I just needed to bitch about this atrocity.
Chris H.

[bone-collector]

Hey Chris , I think if you dig real deep you will find there werent moose in your area or mine until the early 40s and 50s when logging started up creating habitat for them, we have had this argument here and won , the first moose here was shot in the early 50s , we also proved that the local natives migrated here and werent here all that long , if we ever meet up for a hunt camp ill bring a documentary book written on the lakes district by the original settelers and it talks about all of the above in question , regardless YES I agree with anphib as wll and if you had seen our truck on monday I wouldnt have wanted to pull us over looking for trouble :lol:

[swamper]

Hey Rob, what is the name of that book. I will see if I can find it here in the local bookstore. I know how well armed you guys were on Monday, and knowing how good Amphib can shoot, as I am sure you can too, I would not have wanted to get you fellows pissed. The only saving grace for some of us is that we got our moose before all the BS came to a head. The closure covers any part o region 5 lying west of the Fraser. The 3 units east of the river are still open so you just know what kind of pressure that these units will get. It will be like region 7 during that ridiculous calf season. And don't get me started on that abortion. I don't need moose meat that bad that I have to take out the future stocks. I won't even hunt my favorite area from the 10th to 25th. It is like a demolition derby out there.
Chris H.

[bone-collector]

well we have the open season here on the 20th and I KNOW they will still be rutting a bit and I have a few aces up my sleeve for willer to get a bull and if your in need of 1 come on up , we can set up a camp and get it on with mother nature :lol: (willer likes moose porn now so be carefull who shares his tent with him :lol: )

the book is entitled the lakes district I beleive that is it, I will dig it out and get all the info for you thisafternoon

[BCrams]

I've got a book here that moose in the Chilcotin were recorded as early as 1920's. Including pictures of moose from Riske Creek in 1930.

There were always moose around - just not many. The logging accellerated the population growth like you said.

My grandfather / grandmother grew up in Fort St James (not native) --- and so did my Dad ...... and they said there was always the odd moose and he has shot them in the 1930's ..... but it wasn't until the 1940's that they became more abundant - most notably along the Stuart River and like you said ... the logging and creation of habitat helped the population.

You might be interested to know also - my grandfather had seen elk on the Stuart river as early as the 1950's ... and like the moose from early 1900's, just the odd rare one ...... 50 years later they are booming and only going to get better.

[bone-collector]

yes I knew about the odd elk and we are starting to see more and more around burns now as well, cheslatta river has had a few sightings and north babine lake I have personaly seen a big 5x5 bull , nice to see them moving in that is for sure

[QnsCowboy]

You guys are all so right about what a BS situation this is, and the rest of us bending over once again and gettin' it without even getting kissed.....But, you are way off base if you think the RCMP are not doing anything about it, or at least want to by upholding the laws...The RCMP is governed by the government...and when it comes to First Nation's people, the government leans in and says what will be enforced...I am sure most of you remember Gustafson Lake....If you know someone who was there, talk to them about how our hands were tied and about the 10,000 rounds that were fired....Don't think for a second that the RCMP is not doing anything because they don't want to....

I can't agree with you guys more on how the hunters get screwed, but don't be so quick to blame the RCMP, there is always more than meets the eye when F.N. people are concerned....

I appologize if I offend anyone for being part of this site and I try to see it from both sides, but it really is just like someone who cuts trees for a living hearing some tree hugger tell them cutting trees is wrong...You might tend to speak out too...

Craig

[swamper]

I can understand that the RCMP have their hands tied by the powers that be. Our friggin politicians are so whipped by the FN's that they can have just about anything their little hearts desire. Just once I would like to see a politician stand up and say to the FN's enough is enough. When it all boils down to it all they want are votes so if they please the indians and the people living down in lotus land the rest of us don't count.
Sorry, but I am having one of my bitch about everything days. Kind of like that new George Strait song, "I Hate Everything"

[QnsCowboy]

Our friggin politicians are so whipped by the FN's that they can have just about anything their little hearts desire.
Sorry, but I am having one of my bitch about everything days. Kind of like that new George Strait song, "I Hate Everything"

Swamper, I so couldn't have said it any better or agree any more than that...

[willyqbc]

I prolly should not respond to this post right now as I am so $#%@^ mad I'm about ready to bust a gut. QnsCowboy, I totally agree the RCMP are not to be blamed here, it's the people (and I use that term losely) at the top of the food chain that are pullin the strings. You refer to Gustafson Lake....what if it had been a bunch of white guys instead of FN's....you know, I know and everyone else knows that they would have been cut down with "EXTREME predjudice". So just what the hell is it that makes these FN's so special that they are above the law? And will actually be rewarded for their lawless activities (such as roadblocks). All this is happening now because of a mistake that happened hundreds of years ago. Our FN's are able to make these claims because they were never a "conquered people" meaning we never fought them and won. You don't have these problems in the good ole U.S.A..... why???.....because theier politicians of the time said "you're gonna do this my way, or we're gonna crush you like a bug" and they did, therefore their FN's have claim to diddly-squat. I am of the opinion that the politicians stand up and say enough is enough.....you want it, take up arms and come try and take it, if you don't want to fight us for it then SIT DOWN and SHUT UP. Its a pipe dream I know, and what we can actually do about it....I don't know either, But sooner or later something has to change. Sorry for the rant

Chris

[Ridge-Runner]

I heard this same topic on when moose arrived into the Caribou Region on another forum. Yes moose had migrated to the center of this province long before the turn of the twentieth century. In 1998, a well-preserved moose antler was found in a peat bog near Smithers, and was radiocarbon dated back to 5,510 BP (Shackleton. 1999). This find represents the oldest known moose fossil in BC. So you’re only out a couple thousand years?

Here’s a piece of the puzzle for you, if moose moved from the north to the south, and only arrived at the center of the Province in the 1930’s, explain how Shiras moose (Alces alces shirasi) a subspecies of moose (Alces alces) are dimorphically different (body sizes)? Have Shiras moose naturally adapted to become smaller in the last few decades? (Bergmann’s Rule states: that geographic races of species possessing larger body sizes are found in cooler parts of the range. Size relation in reference to climate). Hence, that’s why Alaskan/Yukon moose are the largest and are found in colder northern climates, and at the opposite end Shiras moose that are found only in the southern warmer portion of the Province and United States are the smallest?


My first question: When did Shiras moose arrive and how did they migrate to the southern half of the province? (George Shiras III, named Shiras moose in 1910, in Yellowstone National Park).

My second question: Natural adaptation must have been in hyper-speed to dimorphically change body sizes in a mere 75 years or less (depending on when they reached Jellystone)? Or please explain how this subspecies arose or migrated?

Also radiocarbon dating shows earlier finding of Indigenous Peoples in Western Canada as well:
Beringa as early as 50,000 years B.P.
Old Crow (Yukon) between 21,000 and 14,000 years B.P
Vermillion River (southern BC) as early as 11,000 years B.P

After the last Ice Age when the Laurentide and Cordilleran Ice Sheets receded it’s difficult at best to determine how human and animal populations waxed and waned across the Western Hemisphere. That’s a great amount of time and change, and this province doesn’t give up its archives easily.

So my bottom line is that it’s useless to argue about when moose arrived or if indigenous peoples inhabited areas on a fine scale, because most likely they did at some point in time during the Holocene epoch (10,000 years BP)? Other political avenues are the only way these issues will be sorted out, and if the government acts as it usually does, and throw’s science out the door, and bases its decisions on economics, political correctness, or votes, who knows what will happen?

Only two Treaties have been settle in British Columbia to date and 110% of the province is in Treaty negotiations presently, so only time will tell?

Regards, RR

[3kills]

i agree withs swamper on this one..the politcians wont do sweet piss all cuz they need the vote...here is a blurb i found out about this same topic...

One thing to remember that under the Delgumuth (sp?) decision natives only have to prove historical use. That historical use doesn't mean Pre-contact (pre-1880). If they have been hunting moose since the 40's or 50's or whenever, that is considered historical use...

i agree this is all bullshit but what are we going to do...we cants start road blocks...we cant tell the government what to do...

[Ridge-Runner]

Whats this pre-contact 1880?

Columbus landed in 1492, and the first European in British Columbia was Sir Alexander McKenize in 1793. Most of the Treaties in Canada were completed in the 1860-70. Our European blood has been on this continent a lot longer than the 1880's. Lets not sell ourselves short here.

Regards,RR

[3kills]

hey i never wrote it i just read it...maybe the guy that wrote it was just using it as a number who knows thats not the whole point of it...

[Ridge-Runner]

Of course it’s a point, where does ones heritage start and stop? I’m a fifth generation Canadian, does that count for anything. For that matter we’re all migrants to this continent, some where here earlier than others, some crossed Beringa some sailed ships and some flew in planes. Whats the difference? We don’t have special rights over people who migrated here, say in the last fifty years? It’s the opposite in this country, look at the French.

Cheers

[3kills]

my whole point was that u dont have to go back to the beging of bloody time to say its historical use...there is that better???!!! 8O :roll:

[Ridge-Runner]

And thats my my point, maybe we should, we all came from europe and time should not matter, we are all humans and should all have equal rights, regardless of race, religion, beliefs, or the time we arrive here?

Check out this link http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/...11_idaltu.shtml or this http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/06/11_idaltu.shtml maybe you’ll see a big picture and longer time frame?


RR

[3kills]

we didnt all come from europe...

[coaster]

Re. the Moose arriving in the Chilcotans, I am copying this from the British Columbia Fish and Wildlife brochure.

Moose Are NewComers in Most Areas

Moose are quite new in the Central Interior of British Columbia, and very
few of these animals were to be found south of Prince George until after
the turn of the century. Early explorers saw few Moose during there
travels, although they were known in the Peace River Country as early
as 1820. After that date some were observed in more southerly regions,
but it was not until shortly after 1900 that the great southerly migration
began in earnest.

They reached Barkerville and Bowren Lake in 1901, Horsefly and Likley
by 1912, Williams Lake by 19213, and Clinton in the following year.

In the meantime they had fanned out westerly to the Nazko and Chilcotin
and easterly to Wells Gray Park. They had reached Adams Lake by
1931, Merritt and Nicola by 1932, Vernon and Princeton a few years
afterwards. Today Moose are found in suitable range almost as far south
as the United States Border, some 500 Miles south of the areas they
inhabited in earlier times.

It is interesting to note that Indians of the Cariboo, Chilcotin, and other
parts of the Interior had no word for Moose in their Native tongues.
The animal was knew to them. The reason for the southward drive was,
put rather simlply, the presence of suitable food where such food did not
exist before. Activities of early settlers and Miners in cutting and burning
the dense forest which were present changed the face of the land. Huge
areas, once heavily forested, were opened up. Food suitable for Moose
then appeared and Moose moved in.

So there you have it, right from the Govt.'s own information..

P.S. I may not be able to answer any reply's as I have a worm in my hard drive and my computer is working part time.. Coaster

[Ridge-Runner]

3Kills

Interesting… I would love to hear your theory on how ancient man inhabited the North America Continent? From either side of the table Creationists or Evolutionists man came from the Asian Continent. Creationist basically believe that man began in the Middle East in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve and dispersed throughout the world. The evolutionists basically believe man evolved on the African Continent and dispersed throughout the world. Different time frames of course. Or are you insinuating that ancient man crawled out of the premortial soup on the North American Continent? Is he a subspecies of human, or is he human at all?

Maybe you have something here, that no one else knows about?



Coaster,

Let me clarify myself, I’m not insinuating that there were lots of moose around in the early 1900’s in the Caribou Region. Before the 1900’s who knows the numbers, anecdotal records don’t carry much weight (even today moose inventory are questionable, that what’s the issues surrounding this whole thread are about?) But what I am saying is, that they were definitely present a lot earlier and farther south than central BC in the early 1900’s. Moose are R selected species meaning they do well in early serial stage forests or disturbed areas, and have the ability to exploit those areas fairly rapidly as they occur. Not like K selected species (sheep) that depend on stable habitats that change very little over time. It would be a very bold statement to say that in the last 10,000 years Western Canada has not encountered frequent and colossal forest fires creating essential habitat for moose and then maturing and reducing that habitat, this is what I meant about populations waxing and waning. The only room I see for argument sake would be the weak subspecies classification of Shiras moose and the accuracy of radiocarbon dating methods?
.

Also I’m glad to see you hold so much faith in anecdotal government reports. I guess we’re just going to have to do with the government decision on the moose closure as well, they know best? I can only image the paper work justifying the moose closure. Also we’re going to have to except how the government has been dealing with Aboriginal Affairs past and presently. So debating this is pointless? We’re all going to have to face the fact we’re all just peons, with the ability to change nothing.

RR


Sow a thought and you reap an act;
Sow an act and you reap a habit;
Sow a habit and you reap a character;
Sow a character and you reap a destiny.

-Charles Reade

[bone-collector]

keep it toned down RR this is the second member in under 50 posts you have attacked if you cant play nice maybe we will ask the admin to step in , its a touchy sistuation at the best dealing with natives rights Vs others rights and usually leads to arguments , try and keep it civil

thank you

[Marc]

RR you've got a PM

[ratherbefishin]

I have long felt that the government will use the fishing and hunting rights as bargening chips- they will sell out our fishing and hunting priveleges with no thought to the implications on the rest of us.I can see the day when we will have to have both Provinceal and Native fishing and hunting licences.I further suggest these roadblocks are the precourser to paying to enter certain areas to hunt and fish

[Amphibious]

I like the 3rd party theory! Aliens! :D

Ever read "Fingerprints of the Gods" by Grame Hancock? good read 8)

[Ridge-Runner]

Folks

I’m here to apologize for any hard feeling, or if I offended anyone in anyway this was not my intent, going back over my threads I may have been strong worded and insensitive, but I feel I only stated facts. I truly belief that all humans deserve equal right no matter race, religion, or beliefs in any part of the world. I also belief that debate is one true way to recognize all facets of issues. From other forums I visit we debate a lot more aggressively, but its obvious this is not that place. There were obvious holes in my threads, which no one picked up on or refused to respond, fair enough.

Sorry for any inconvenience or disruption, I’ll be moving on.

Regards, Ridge Runner

[Marc]

Hey Ridge Runner welcome to the site. if you've got some photo's you want to add to the gallery just email them to me(marc@huntingbc.ca) and I'll start you up a album. That goes for all of the other new members as well.

Marc.

[palmer]

So it looks like we can KISS goodbye the open season next year...The FN makes all this fuss about hunters taking a few spikes and two points, but they forget to mention the fact that they kill whatever moose walks on the road. BULL, Cow and Calf it makes no difference. And what about all the hunters that bought a moose tag and planned going to region 5 at the end of October, i'll bet there is no refund of their money. Its time the BC goverment looks at who puts the money into game management in this province and at least gives us a fair shake.

[coaster]

To RR , If you read my post correctly you would have noticed that I did not make a statement re who is right and who is wrong, I just copied verbatum from a B./C. Govt. brochure. I really don't give a damn, all I know is if I had a legally aquired LEH for that area I am going to hunt in that area. At my age ( 66 ) I don't give a shit.

[bone-collector]

I do like Palmers take on the folks that live and hunt there as well as the LEH tags given out for there , alot of folks screwed out of there winter supply of meat overnight :evil:

[3kills]

when i said were not all from europe i ment there is alot of people in this country that dont come from europe...

[bill]

I say hold there cheques stop paying there kids to go to schoolput them on the same playing field as us make em pay taxes buy ther own goddam house find out what a mortgage is put insurance on their trucks and cars pay for medicall and all the bullshit the rest of us canadians have to endure they wouldnt have the time for blockades and shit they have bills and shit to take care of... thats just my opinion onthis bullshit...

[oldtimer]

So guys, I have a few questions.
1. Because I have not got my moose like Willy and Swamper do I get a refund on my tag ???
2. Who is it that determines how many moose the FN need for sustenance because they were too lazy to go fishing?????
I will leave the long tirades up to my son, he is so good at it!

[Gateholio]

Folks

I’m here to apologize for any hard feeling, or if I offended anyone in anyway this was not my intent, going back over my threads I may have been strong worded and insensitive, but I feel I only stated facts. I truly belief that all humans deserve equal right no matter race, religion, or beliefs in any part of the world. I also belief that debate is one true way to recognize all facets of issues. From other forums I visit we debate a lot more aggressively, but its obvious this is not that place. There were obvious holes in my threads, which no one picked up on or refused to respond, fair enough.

Sorry for any inconvenience or disruption, I’ll be moving on.

Regards, Ridge Runner

Ridge Runner

I don't see the need to apolgize for anything you said..I read your posts and you stated your opinion. Sounds good to me!

I like a good debate too! Without HONEST, RATIONAL, MATURE debate, these forums wouldn't be worth shit!!

There are some that don't like to debate, they would prefer to sling crap. I haven't seen that from you, all I've seen is a guy with an opinon...and is willing to justify his opinion!! And...I like that...:)

There is only one admin here, and that is Marc. He owns the site, and he has welcomed you here. Unless he tell s you to move on, then you might as well stay!

I think you sholud stick around, it's an interesting site!

[Steeleco]

Maybe if there cheques stopped showing up in the mail they'd have no time to spend sitting on there ass blocking the road. Sure they're protecting there food supplies, I bet if you ask nice they'll sell you some.????

[walks with deer]

look at this from 14years ago

[edg]

This is my first post. The following is a news item that affects us all as hunters.

WILLIAMS LAKE, B.C. - Dozens of hunters hoping to bag a moose in the Chilcotin's Nemiah Valley have been turned back at two First Nations roadblocks.

The Tsilqot'in National Government says it's stopping non-native hunters and ATV riders to protect their food supply in the area southwest of Williams Lake.

"If they look like they're hunters, we prevent them from going through," says Tsilqot'in spokesperson Joe Alphonse.

"If they want to continue into the area, that's fine so long as they hand over their moose tags to us."

INDEPTH: First Nations in British Columbia

Chilcotin rancher Duncan Baynes is angry after he was stopped at one of the roadblocks.

"You know, these people are taking the law into their own hands," he says. "I don't think natives should be doing this. I don't think it's a way to win friends and influence people."

Baynes says dozens of hunters who travelled to the area and were turned back are also angry – and he says it gives B.C. "a black eye."

The MLA for the area, Walt Cobb, says his office is hearing from some of those hunters. "Roadblocks are illegal to start with. The people have a right to hunt out there."

The Alexis Creek RCMP say they're monitoring the blockade, but have no plans to intervene. Police say the blockades are set up in an area that's the subject of a land claims battle that's before the courts.

Meanwhile, the Tsilquot'in says it's planning to set up a third road block to keep non-native hunters out of the Chilcotin

I will be up there mid October hunting moose so hopefully they'll go home by then.
Start your own blockade in front of the liquor store entrance, just a couple local boys standing shoulder to shoulder catching up on the news when a FN tries to enter.

[hawk-i]

If the law states it's illegal to interfere with a legal hunt why aren't the RCMP and Co's laying charges and removing the blockades?
Or are they going to wait until some one dies?

[russm]

If the law states it's illegal to interfere with a legal hunt why aren't the RCMP and Co's laying charges and removing the blockades?
Or are they going to wait until some one dies?

Racism mostly

[Piperdown]

Chief Joe is a piece of work, hypocrite, racist at the top level. maybe he can tell us how many cow moose they harvested in the last 10 years, then you will get your answer on where all the moose went.

[hawk-i]

Racism mostly

It's got to be more than racism...there has got to be some CO's and RCMP members on here, maybe they could chime in.

[wideopenthrottle]

Swamper, I so couldn't have said it any better or agree any more than that...

sadly, I learned in school that our democracy was premised on a separation of the 3 levels of power...that enacting laws, enforcing laws and judging penalties based on the law were to be 3 separate things....

[338win mag]

Chief Joe is a piece of work, hypocrite, racist at the top level. maybe he can tell us how many cow moose they harvested in the last 10 years, then you will get your answer on where all the moose went.
Chief Joe doesn't know how many Moose were harvested last year, let alone the last 10 years. If they did keep a record then the ministry would be able to make adjustments to the LEH and the GOS so resident hunters could hunt Moose too, thats why they dont want to know the numbers.

[Arctic Lake]

It just makes sense that records should be kept, especially if indigenous people care about wildlife sustainability !
Arctic Lake

[Mulehahn]

I truly wonder what would happen if a blockade was set up a km before the FN blockade not allowing them out barring an emergency. They claim title to all the land behind their blockade so they have no claim to that in front if it. How long would the RCMP remain out of it then?

I am not saying there claims are right or wrong. Just arguing that until they are proven in court they are no more valid than those arguing the earth is flat. Enforce the law as it is, not what it may be!

[Darris doois]

Anyone got an excavator. I say we dig up the road on either side of them. Then in front of city hall

[tinhorse]

Lol, 14 year old thread and the same shit is still happening today......

[finngun]

darris..Anyone got an excavator. I say we dig up the road on either side of them. Then in front of city hall,,i add front of liquor stores too..

tinhorse..Lol, 14 year old thread and the same shit is still happening today../// yep and when we are gone...still same jazzz:cool:...unless???

[Jagermeister]

Hey Rob, what is the name of that book. I will see if I can find it here in the local bookstore. I know how well armed you guys were on Monday, and knowing how good Amphib can shoot, as I am sure you can too, I would not have wanted to get you fellows pissed. The only saving grace for some of us is that we got our moose before all the BS came to a head. The closure covers any part o region 5 lying west of the Fraser. The 3 units east of the river are still open so you just know what kind of pressure that these units will get. It will be like region 7 during that ridiculous calf season. And don't get me started on that abortion. I don't need moose meat that bad that I have to take out the future stocks. I won't even hunt my favorite area from the 10th to 25th. It is like a demolition derby out there.
Chris H.
Three Against the Wilderness by Eric Collier. He reported that some indians shot a moose in the Meldrum Creek area where he lived. The year, 1918. They did not know what they shot but it wasn't a wapiti (elk) which did exist in small pockets like Skeleton Valley east of McCleese Lake.
The first recorded moose shot in BC was up in the Kispiox /Hazelton area in 1910. The moose more or less followed the Hudson Bay Company trader over the great divide. At that time, Fort St. James was the major settlement and depot for the Hudson Bay Company, predating all other settlements. Kamloops was a established trading depot that was a satellite fort to Fort St. James. (This info was sourced from Hudson Bay Company compiling.)

[Jagermeister]

It just makes sense that records should be kept, especially if indigenous people care about wildlife sustainability !
Arctic Lake
They have memory like no other ethnic group on earth. The invented iron, but preferred the stoneage.

[guest]

Zero accountability .......
Clueless when it comes to full picture.
Want everything and anything including roads hospitals buildings tax free animals fish etc etc.
Some one else WAS first here.....
And it certainly wasnt them either.
Hypocrites
Man this Crap gets old.
Canada should dump the UN.
Treat any one and every one the same. Including Laws and penalties. Opportunities limits and accountability.
Until then.
Racism WILL CONTINUE.

[Deer_Slayer]

Hilarious native hypocrisy. Moose are not even in their cultural history. Moose migrated into BC way back from Alaska and Yukon. Most native peoples in BC don't even have a word for moose because they were not around back in the day. Utter bullshit.

[Jagermeister]

I heard that the Tiny House Warriors ( Kanahus Manuel and company) tried to occupy the Thompson River Provincial Park on the outskirts of Clearwater again. The key word here is "tried". It didn't happen. Why you ask? The Clearwater RCMP locked them out. Too bad the Alexis Creek RCMP weren't up to enforcing the law.
The Simpcw must be getting pissed with the intrusion of the Nescoonlith into their traditional territory.

[bchunter181]

but good hard tax money pays salaries to uphold the law if thats not whats going to happen than we need to go back to handling the law by ourselves if the goverment wont do it for us.i dont work my ass off and half my cheque go to the goverment to be told on my holidays and tons of money going on a lawfull moose hunt that i am wrong and have to turn around that is complete bullshit and when this turns sour.The anger will start growing and will see shit hit the fan and the government will be to blame.When the goverment puts out statements saying shit like this. than they better stick by it when it gets heated and someone calls the police and not told turn around were not gonna do our job.




Some First Nations within the Cariboo, Omineca, Skeena, and Peace regions have released statements that hunting, with a focus on Limited Entry Hunting for moose, is banned within portions of these regions.
The Province has not responded with Wildlife Act closures and considers that all legally issued/acquired licences of guides, resident hunters and non-resident hunters are valid.







You guys are all so right about what a BS situation this is, and the rest of us bending over once again and gettin' it without even getting kissed.....But, you are way off base if you think the RCMP are not doing anything about it, or at least want to by upholding the laws...The RCMP is governed by the government...and when it comes to First Nation's people, the government leans in and says what will be enforced...I am sure most of you remember Gustafson Lake....If you know someone who was there, talk to them about how our hands were tied and about the 10,000 rounds that were fired....Don't think for a second that the RCMP is not doing anything because they don't want to....

I can't agree with you guys more on how the hunters get screwed, but don't be so quick to blame the RCMP, there is always more than meets the eye when F.N. people are concerned....

I appologize if I offend anyone for being part of this site and I try to see it from both sides, but it really is just like someone who cuts trees for a living hearing some tree hugger tell them cutting trees is wrong...You might tend to speak out too...

Craig

[SB75]

The FN are all about "my ancestors did this, and my ancestors did that". Well if we are allowed to do what our ancestors did then guess what. My ancestors killed natives and took their land. Does that mean I am allowed to?

[HappyJack]

The FN are all about "my ancestors did this, and my ancestors did that". Well if we are allowed to do what our ancestors did then guess what. My ancestors killed natives and took their land. Does that mean I am allowed to?

OMG~~are you drunk or stoned??

[HappyJack]

It just makes sense that records should be kept, especially if indigenous people care about wildlife sustainability !
Arctic Lake

No, they should be doing proper surveys of SURVIVING wildlife. Records cannot track natural deaths or kills made by predators. THINK a little about how many moose packs of wolves kill and eat every year...365 days per year, day or night.....who records that?

[Sharpish]

No, they should be doing proper surveys of SURVIVING wildlife. Records cannot track natural deaths or kills made by predators. THINK a little about how many moose packs of wolves kill and eat every year...365 days per year, day or night.....who records that?

How do you track surviving wildlife, you jackass? You keep track of what you can keep track of. Shooting a moose is something easily tracked. You want to survey every animal running through the woods? How do you propose to do that, genius?

[Jagermeister]

How do you track surviving wildlife, you jackass? You keep track of what you can keep track of. Shooting a moose is something easily tracked. You want to survey every animal running through the woods? How do you propose to do that, genius?Tracking wildlife inventories has been done through aerial surveys. Mid winter when the ungulates congregate on low level winter range. Coincides with the majority of cultural harvest.