Rifle on ATV question

[Dmytro]

2009 hunting synopsis says this:

"You should also know it’s unlawful to discharge, carry or have in possession a firearm containing live ammunition in its breech or in its magazine attached to the firearm, in or on a railway car, motor vehicle, sleigh, aircraft, bicycle or other conveyance."

From this I understand that it is unlawful to have rounds in my magazine while riding on my ATV, right? But I am having trouble figuring out which law says that it is "unlawful"? I've scanned the Firearms Act and it only covers transport of prohibited and restricted firearms, I could not find anything in there about transporting unrestricted firearms.

[HD95]

I believe this to be a law under the wildlife act.No loaded weapons while in or on a motor vehicle.

[CanuckShooter]

2009 hunting synopsis says this:

"You should also know it’s unlawful to discharge, carry or have in possession a firearm containing live ammunition in its breech or in its magazine attached to the firearm, in or on a railway car, motor vehicle, sleigh, aircraft, bicycle or other conveyance."

From this I understand that it is unlawful to have rounds in my magazine while riding on my ATV, right? But I am having trouble figuring out which law says that it is "unlawful"? I've scanned the Firearms Act and it only covers transport of prohibited and restricted firearms, I could not find anything in there about transporting unrestricted firearms.

An ATV is considered to be a
'other conveyance'...a vehicle of any kind....

[Hank Hunter]

It is Illegal to have a loaded firearm while riding your Quad, simple answer, this one has been beat to death

[Dmytro]

An ATV is considered to be a
'other conveyance'...a vehicle of any kind....

Yes, makes sense. But what law says it?

[CanuckShooter]

Yes, makes sense. But what law says it?

Not sure? I don't care really because it's well known to be illegal to have a loaded firearm on or in a vehicle of any kind.....and it's unsafe/stupid/dangerous/unnecessary....good enough for me.

[Dmytro]

I believe this to be a law under the wildlife act.No loaded weapons while in or on a motor vehicle.

BC Wildlife Act has section 27 "Use of conveyance". It says this about firearms:

"A person who discharges a firearm or wounds or kills wildlife from a motor vehicle or from a boat that is propelled by a motor commits an offence."

No reference to transporting loaded firearms though.

[Hank Hunter]

IT IS UNLAWFUL

5. to discharge, carry or have in possession
a firearm containing live ammunition in
its breech or in its magazine attached to
the firearm, in or on a railway car, motor
vehicle, sleigh, aircraft, bicycle or other
conveyance.
6. to carry a cocked crossbow in or on a
vehicle, or to discharge a bow from a
vehicle of any kind

What don't you understand?

[Will]

It is Illegal to have a loaded firearm while riding your Quad, simple answer, this one has been beat to death
Oh come on, there simply must be some loophole to allow a loaded rifle to be carried on a quad......there simply has to be:neutral:

[silvertipp]

Where is the best spot to shoot a deer? neck or lungs?

[Dmytro]

IT IS UNLAWFUL

5. to discharge, carry or have in possession
a firearm containing live ammunition in
its breech or in its magazine attached to
the firearm, in or on a railway car, motor
vehicle, sleigh, aircraft, bicycle or other
conveyance.
6. to carry a cocked crossbow in or on a
vehicle, or to discharge a bow from a
vehicle of any kind

What don't you understand?

Ok, I'll repeat my question: I am curious as to which law this synopsis is referring to in this particular paragraph. Do you have an idea which law that might be?

[elkdom]

Where is the best spot to shoot a deer? neck or lungs?


best SPOT to shoot a deer is??

A "SECRET SPOT", never share this with anyone! :-|

[ChilliwackWinchester]

Firearm Act

[RSBC 1996] CHAPTER 145

Section 9(1)

[Dmytro]

Firearm Act

[RSBC 1996] CHAPTER 145

Section 9(1)

Yes, just found it myself too. I did not know there was a BC Firearm Act. Thanks for your response!

["skma"]

Where is the best spot to shoot a deer? neck or lungs?
right up the rear ars hole so u dont have 2 worry bout cutting out when gutting out:mrgreen::mrgreen:

[Dmytro]

Oh come on, there simply must be some loophole to allow a loaded rifle to be carried on a quad......there simply has to be:neutral:

:) I was not really looking for one, but it appears that the loophole is to simply drive over the northern border of BC. Yukon hunting regulations summary document has this definition, notice lack of reference to the firearm's magazine:

"Loaded Firearm means a cartridge-loading firearm with a live shell or cartridge in the breech or chamber, or a muzzle-loading firearm with gunpowder and a projectile in the chamber and an ignition device in place."

I did not look over Yukon laws, but based on this summary it does appear to be lawful to ride an ATV in Yukon with a loaded magazine as long as the chamber is empty.

So the answer to my original question is that BC Firearm Act prohibits rifles with loaded magazines on ATVs in BC and you can get arrested for this based on the same law, however other jurisdictions in Canada do not necessarily have such limitation.

[Hank Hunter]

:) I was not really looking for one, but it appears that the loophole is to simply drive over the northern border of BC. Yukon hunting regulations summary document has this defininition

Then you can shoot paper from your quad as you don't have a resident hunting license :-?

[Will]

Then you can shoot paper from your quad as you don't have a resident hunting license :-?
:lol:........

[gutpile]

what about not driving the atv just standing beside the atv and puting aload gun on the gun rack on the atv that must be wrong allso i do that alot if i have to get keys ett. or just walking around and glassing.

[Hank Hunter]

You guys need to read and understand the regs, have you taken core and firearms courses?

[ChilliwackWinchester]

[quote=one horn buck;600707]what about not driving the atv just standing beside the atv and puting aload gun on the gun rack on the atv that must be wrong allso i do that alot if i have to get keys ett.

You can't lean or rest a loaded firearm against any motor vehicle or any other conveyance (probably against anything for that matter). I know of someone who got ticketed for that... leaned it agains the truck tire while he took out his keys. That was many years ago, but the law probably hasn't changed.

[JNeary]

I'm not sure about the legal jargon, but a friend of mine was fined for having a bullet in the magazine of his rifle.

[Gateholio]

You'd be unlawfully transporting a firearm according to the Canadian Firearms Act.

[Dmytro]

You'd be unlawfully transporting a firearm according to the Canadian Firearms Act.

I thought so too until I failed to find a paragraph that covered this topic in the Canadian Act . Even more interesting, Canadian Firearms Act does not contain the word "loaded" as of Dec 2, 2009.

[ChilliwackWinchester]

I don't believe the Canadian Firearms act governs the transportation of non restricted firearms. I think it is more for the "ownership" of the firearm. The transportation (and therefore the terms relating to a loaded firearm) are governed by the BC Firearm Act

[Gateholio]

There are certainly overlaps with regards to firearm legislation,but make no mistake about it, The Firearms Act (Bill C-68) very much prohibit the transportation of ALL loaded firearms in or on vehicles, which includes an ATV.

Please dont' take my word for it. Drive around with a loaded firearm on an ATV all you wish. Matters not to me.:-D:mrgreen:

[Gateholio]

Quick fact sheet:

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/storage-entreposage-eng.htm

There is a link there to a PDF copy of the FIrearms Act relevant sections.

[Dmytro]

There are certainly overlaps with regards to firearm legislation,but make no mistake about it, The Firearms Act (Bill C-68) very much prohibit the transportation of ALL loaded firearms in or on vehicles, which includes an ATV.

Please dont' take my word for it. Drive around with a loaded firearm on an ATV all you wish. Matters not to me.:-D:mrgreen:

Ok, you are right, there is a separate document covering storage and transportation by individuals (SOR/98-209) which prohibits transportation of loaded firearms including ammo in the attached magazine. So now I think this means Yukon hunting summary is incomplete for failing to mention loaded magazines, and the purpose of the clause 9 in the BC law is likely to give COs rights to search, confiscate and arrest for this offense.

[Gateholio]

Ok, you are right, there is a separate document covering storage and transportation by individuals (SOR/98-209) which prohibits transportation of loaded firearms including ammo in the attached magazine. So now I think this means Yukon hunting summary is incomplete for failing to mention loaded magazines, and the purpose of the clause 9 in the BC law is likely to give COs rights to search, confiscate and arrest for this offense.

The Yukon regulations are not incomplete- it's unnecessary to duplicate a law.

The BC laws about not having a loaded gun in a vehicle were put in place before C-68

CO's in either province can enforce the Firearms Act if they choose.

[Dmytro]

The Yukon regulations are not incomplete- it's unnecessary to duplicate a law.

The BC laws about not having a loaded gun in a vehicle were put in place before C-68

CO's in either province can enforce the Firearms Act if they choose.

Thanks for clarifications!

[scoutin1]

I was out hunting with a group near Beaverdell about 15 years ago when one of our group drove up to camp on an ATV. He walked up to the fire and I asked him if he had checked his firearm to see if it was unloaded. He said no, checked it and there was a bullet in the magazine which he removed. 10 minutes later the CO showed up and did a check of every rifle in view including the one on the ATV in the scabbard. Better safe than sorry, that's for sure!

[Gateholio]

I was out hunting with a group near Beaverdell about 15 years ago when one of our group drove up to camp on an ATV. He walked up to the fire and I asked him if he had checked his firearm to see if it was unloaded. He said no, checked it and there was a bullet in the magazine which he removed. 10 minutes later the CO showed up and did a check of every rifle in view including the one on the ATV in the scabbard. Better safe than sorry, that's for sure!

See, this I don't understand. Why woudl a CO care if you had a loaded firearm in camp ? (not in or on a vehicle) It's perfectly legal.

[madrona sh]

I thought you can shoot from a boat if not under power.Walrus hunting?

[Dmytro]

See, this I don't understand. Why woudl a CO care if you had a loaded firearm in camp ? (not in or on a vehicle) It's perfectly legal.

I have the same question. Could it be because keeping a firearm in a camp constitutes "storage" in which case you can't have it loaded as per the same regulations document?

[sawmill]

If you are present and your rifle is loaded in camp but not in or on a vehicle they can piss off.

[Dmytro]

I thought you can shoot from a boat if not under power.Walrus hunting?

The SOR-98-209 document seems to be very direct- it says that you can't transport a loaded firearm, period. The BC Firearm Act also prohibits discharging from any conveyance, including bicycles which are also not under power (unless there is a regulation or permit permitting you to do so).

[capt.T]

what about having a loaded magazine in your pocket NOT atached, on, or in firearm? is this unlawful? could not find any info on this, many people I talked to about this insist it is unlawful. anyone ever get a ticket for this?

[Gateholio]

I thought you can shoot from a boat if not under power.Walrus hunting?

Yes you can. Turn the motor off and you are good to go. Same with being in a canoe.
:wink:

what about having a loaded magazine in your pocket NOT atached, on, or in firearm? is this unlawful? could not find any info on this, many people I talked to about this insist it is unlawful. anyone ever get a ticket for this?

You can have the magazine 2 mm away from the rifle and it's legal. Once the ammunition enters the receiver or the chamber, it's illegal. Not illegal to have cartridges in those butt stock holders or rifle slings with loops, either.

[BearStump]

GatehouseQuote:
Originally Posted by scoutin1 http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=601066#post601066)
I was out hunting with a group near Beaverdell about 15 years ago when one of our group drove up to camp on an ATV. He walked up to the fire and I asked him if he had checked his firearm to see if it was unloaded. He said no, checked it and there was a bullet in the magazine which he removed. 10 minutes later the CO showed up and did a check of every rifle in view including the one on the ATV in the scabbard. Better safe than sorry, that's for sure!



See, this I don't understand. Why woudl a CO care if you had a loaded firearm in camp ? (not in or on a vehicle) It's perfectly legal.


you're right, It is legal. But if every guy standing around this fire has got a beer in their hand and there's a bottle of fireball doing the rounds, the situation is changed dramatically. The CO then must exersise his judgement as to the safe use and handling, and storage of the firearms.
Not only that but If a CO NEVER checked firearms when in the woods, do ya think that anyone would follow the rules?

[CanuckShooter]

Not only that but If a CO NEVER checked firearms when in the woods, do ya think that anyone would follow the rules?

Sure we would follow the rules, it's our lives and the lives of those around us that depend on our safe handling of firearms.

[timberhunter]

This thread lacks any amount of common sence.
Anyone who is trying to find a loop hole to carry a loaded firearm while in or on a motor vehicle. Lacks any gun safety sence. You should not need a written law to tell you its unsafe. Did your dad or other mentors teach you nothing about firearm safety.
The fact that its even being discussed makes my skin crawl. And thank christ I don't hunt or hang around with anyone who would be simply put "That god damm stupid".

If I ever found that one of the people I was hunting with was riding in my vehicle or on the quad beside with rounds in. It would be the very last time that person would be around me with a gun of any kind.

[sawmill]

This thread lacks any amount of common sence.
Anyone who is trying to find a loop hole to carry a loaded firearm while in or on a motor vehicle. Lacks any gun safety sence. You should not need a written law to tell you its unsafe. Did your dad or other mentors teach you nothing about firearm safety.
The fact that its even being discussed makes my skin crawl. And thank christ I don't hunt or hang around with anyone who would be simply put "That god damm stupid".

If I ever found that one of the people I was hunting with was riding in my vehicle or on the quad beside with rounds in. It would be the very last time that person would be around me with a gun of any kind.

Eggzaclly.I agree,why do you ask these stupid questions unless you are looking for a loop hole?You will never hunt with me.

[ChilliwackWinchester]

If you are present and your rifle is loaded in camp but not in or on a vehicle they can piss off.

I think unless you are actually holding the rifle at the time that a CO comes to check, it needs to be unloaded. If your not holding it, that means that you have either leaned it against something or laid it down loaded. I seem to remember that during the "crossing a fence" portion of the CORE training that you have to unload the firearm anytime you are placing the gun down. If it's on the seat of the truck... well then thats obvious, but even for leaning against a tree or anything else for that matter, it has to be unloaded. Otherwise, someone could potentially pick up a loaded forearm in error.

[madrona sh]

X2.... But like the boat or canoe legality there is legitimate questions regarding whats legal and what is not.But looking for loopholes thats outright ........I can't even find a word for this behavior.

[KodiakHntr]

I seem to remember that during the "crossing a fence" portion of the CORE training that you have to unload the firearm anytime you are placing the gun down.

Thats a common sense thing, not a legal thing. Its to prevent your dog from accidentally shooting you if he steps on your gun, or if you fall on it.

[ChilliwackWinchester]

Thats a common sense thing, not a legal thing. Its to prevent your dog from accidentally shooting you if he steps on your gun, or if you fall on it.

Your right, I don't think there is a specific law in place that covers that scenario, but I think the law does still provide for circumstances where common sense was not exercised.

Exercise of care for safety of others

3 A person who is in possession or control of a firearm must exercise care for the safety of other persons or property.




It would be at the discrection of the CO if the lack of sense was boneheaded enough to warrant the ticket. I bet they would at least warn you though.

[Dmytro]

[quote=Gatehouse;601208]Yes you can. Turn the motor off and you are good to go. Same with being in a canoe.
:wink:

So canoes and boats with motors out of the water do not qualify as conveyances? SOR/98-209 has this definition (even though it is not referenced in the "cannot transport loaded firearms" section):

"“vehicle” means any conveyance that is used for transportation by water, land or air."

There appears to be no difference made with powered or non-powered water transportation conveyances.

BC law explicitly includes bicycles. It is kind of obvious that bicycles and loaded firearms don't mix, but what about skis or showshoes- are those "conveyances"? My guess would be no, but I don't know on what basis skis and showshoes would be different than bicycles.

[Hank Hunter]

Now you are getting ridiculous. If you want to go hunting, read the BC synopsis, learn it and follow it

[Dmytro]

Now you are getting ridiculous. If you want to go hunting, read the BC synopsis, learn it and follow it

I want to understand what the law says about handling firearms and ammo in more detail than what is covered in the basic training, and am also interested in feedback from the folks in the field on their experience in how the law is interpreted. If you have no interest in this topic, please stop reading this thread, or at least stop posting here. Comments such as "empty cranium", "stop looking for loopholes", "ridiculous", etc, are appreciated but are not helping me find answers to my questions.

Thanks to everybody who contributed to this, it has been very informative!

[Hank Hunter]

How the law is interpreted by posters here means nothing. It is not complicated. The law is interpreted by the Co's and even they don't always agree. Your comments about snow shoes are what I referred to as ridiculous.

[Kudu]

I was out hunting with a group near Beaverdell about 15 years ago when one of our group drove up to camp on an ATV. He walked up to the fire and I asked him if he had checked his firearm to see if it was unloaded. He said no, checked it and there was a bullet in the magazine which he removed. 10 minutes later the CO showed up and did a check of every rifle in view including the one on the ATV in the scabbard. Better safe than sorry, that's for sure!



So, If I'm solo hunting up in the Alpine, in my sleeping bag, tucked up and reading a book (like some of our intrepid members where doing) with my guide gun loaded with a shell in the tube - some CO is going to nail me for protecting my own arse against a grizzly attack?

Yes the law is the law - but my arse is my arse - and I don't intend it being chewed off by some bloody grumpy Grizz.


..

[Hank Hunter]

So If I'm solo hunting up in the Alpine, in my sleeping bag, tucked up and reading a book (like some of our intrepid members where doing) with my guide gun loaded with a shell in the tube - some CO is going to nail me for protecting my own arse against a grizzly attack?

Yes the law is the law - but my arse is my arse - and I don't intend it being chewed off by some bloody grumpy Grizz.

Exactly. I am sure many hunters sleep with a loaded gun when tenting in G country

[bridger]

after the first two or three replies this thread was ridculous

[italhunter]

I thought you can shoot from a boat if not under power.Walrus hunting?

I think this is a common misconception. I couldn't find anything saying this is legal.

[leadpillproductions]

after the first two or three replies this thread was ridculous


Thats how all post end up like . Its kinda childish

[Hank Hunter]

Thats how all post end up like . Its kinda childish

Yes the first question was reasonable, and was answered. Now it is just :roll:
RIDICULOUS

[Dmytro]

Yes the first question was reasonable, and was answered. Now it is just :roll:
RIDICULOUS

Ok, fine, I'll look for answers elsewhere and leave this thread for you to insist on your opinion that is not related to the topic of the discussion, so have fun with it. For the record, you did not even understand the "first" question. And it was not answered until well into the thread where Gatehouse came in. As far as I am concerned you've been as much help to me as the spam in my junk mail folder.

[ChilliwackWinchester]

I think this thread is actually pretty good and true to the purpose of this forum. There is obviously some doubt about the legality of hunting from a boat, which happens every hunting season. I'm pretty sure there are quite a few river boat hunters that would be interested to know if it turns out they have been hunting under a misconception rather than the actual law. I have never hunted from a boat, however, I have to admit, I thought it was legal as long as you pull up the motor before you shoot. Seems like a good discussion to me if the end result is that someone is able to point to the law that either demonstrates it legal or illegal.

[Hank Hunter]

For the record, you obviously don't understand anything about the firearms act. You are of course entitled to your opinion and I hope someone can answer your query about a loaded gun on snow shoes. People here have tried to answer your ?'s but you just keep taking it to the absurd level. :mrgreen:

[coquitlam]

Wow , that is a question that a long time ethical hunter ,who was brought up with good gun handling skills and ethics ,just would not ask or think of. When you look so close to a law ,there has got to be a reason (probably not a good one) . I understand looking close to gun laws in camp and in vehicles to make sure that the right thing is done .But to beat to death the law on loaded guns on an ATV is just plain goofy or you are a lawyer (trying to get your client off). Sorry you don/t like negative responses ,but this is a public forum.

[goatdancer]

It would be a whole lot simpler and accurate to call a CO for this kind of info, rather than asking for opinions on an internet forum.

[timberhunter]

http://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gif

[Hank Hunter]

It would be a whole lot simpler and accurate to call a CO for this kind of info, rather than asking for opinions on an internet forum.

The only correct answer


http://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gifhttp://www.christianguitar.org/forums/images/smilies/brick.gif

You Know It

[Gateholio]

you're right, It is legal. But if every guy standing around this fire has got a beer in their hand and there's a bottle of fireball doing the rounds, the situation is changed dramatically. The CO then must exersise his judgement as to the safe use and handling, and storage of the firearms.
Not only that but If a CO NEVER checked firearms when in the woods, do ya think that anyone would follow the rules?

Most people follow the laws because they think it's the correct thing to do, not because they think the CO's are going to nab them:-D

I think that 99% of the transport and storage laws are bunk, but I follow them because I do what they tell me to do, like a meek subject.:icon_frow